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[One Piece] Power Levels Discussion V.2

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@ User Name.

-I'm not saying Pre Time Skip Akainu is much more powerful than Aokiji. I'm not sure what you mean when you say Aokiji gets Akainu to the point where he can finish him off. Finish him off with what?

-I didn't say that proves Shanks is as powerful as Old Whitebeard. I simply listed it as a great feat.

-The Straw Hat has been in the hands of the leader of every generation. Why would that be different with Shanks?

-Where is it stated that Akainu fighting anyone in the war at that point would have gotten him expelled from the Marines? Kizaru and Aokiji, who weren't around the area Shanks was in at the time, actually continued fighting. They didn't get expelled from the Marines for doing that.

-You're essentially just saying that the Red Hair Commanders in general are more powerful than the Whitebeard Commanders. Why would that apply to the Red Hair Commanders but not Shanks?

-My bad, I thought you said that Naruto surpasses everyone by a significant amount. However, that would then have nothing to do with what I'm saying. Luffy respects Shanks because he's powerful. What Luffy knows about Shanks at the time doesn't really matter. My point is that Luffy is using Shanks as a benchmark, and Oda writing that as the first chapter and making Shanks a Yonkou later on says a lot.

Posts from the previous version of the thread:

I would like to see what people think about power levels once more.

Rank the characters that you see on Pirate King, Yonko and Admiral level.

(You are free to add some ranks between if you think it's necessary, I excluded rank like Fleet Admiral since I believe it hold same strength as Yonko and First Mate of Yonko crew holds same power as Admiral IMO)

Gol D. Roger
Shiki
Edward Newgate
Marshall D. Teach
Kaido
Big Mam
Shanks
Akainu
Aokiji
Kizaru
Fujitorra
Silver Rayleigh
Sengoku
Marco
Monkey D. Garp
Dragon

Those are the big guns in the series, I am not quite sure just how strong the Gorosei are, if they can even fight to begin with. We only assume they can because of that one guy with the sword. Its hard to put an order with them but I would guess it goes something like:

1) Gol D. Roger
2) Edward Newgate (Prime)
3) Monkey D. Garp (Prime)
4) Shiki The Golden Lion

---------Small but notable gap-------

5) Kaido The Beast
6) Akainu
7) Aokiji
8) Dragon
9) Shanks (2-Arms)
10) Sengoku (Prime)

---------Small but notable gap--------

11) Marshall D. Teach
12) Silver Rayleigh (Prime)
13) Dracule Mihawk
14) Big Mam
15) Kizaru
16) Marco
17) Fujitorra

----------Small gap---------

17) Sabo
18) Donquixote Doflamingo
19) Monkey D. Luffy
20) Diamond Jozu

Characters I expect to grow stronger out of these are:

Akainu
Marshall D. Teach
Fujitorra
Sabo
Monkey D. Luffy

The only characters I took a complete wild guess with no info whatsoever are Dragon and Big Mam, so he can be higher or lower in ranking. He has a huge powerful army but he never struck me as a complete powerhouse, though I do expect him to still be insanely powerful. I would also like to point out that unless it specifically says that there is a gap, the gap between numbers is anywhere from very slight to almost completely nonexistent.

Pirate King Level:

Gol D. Roger and Edward Newgate
Shiki
Monkey D. Garp (prime)
Sengoku (prime)
Edward Newgate (old)
Monkey D. Dragon

Yonko Level/Fleet Admiral Level:

Shanks / Dracule Mihawk / Silvers Rayleight (prime)
Monkey D. Garp (old)
Sakazuki
Kuzan
Kaido
Charlotte Linlin
Marshall D. Teach
Sengoku (old)

Admiral Level/First Mate of Yonko crew Level:

Marco
Borsalino
Don Chinjao (prime)
Silvers Rayleight (old)
Issho
Sabo
Donquioxote Doflamingo

Kong should be somewhere there by not exactly sure where.

Portgas D. Ace - as was already said in the manga, in prime Ace would be PK level
Monkey D. Luffy - PK level by EoS
Shillew - no much information about him, by assume he is Admiral level PTS
Trafalgar D. Water Law - if he survives by EoS Yonko level at least
Eustass Kid - same as Law
Roronoa Zoro - Yonko level by EoS
Sanji - Admiral level by EoS.
X Drake - Only one of the Supernovas who was capable of fighting Pacifista alone, not sure which level he could be but I think he deserve to be by EoS.
Marshall D. Teach - PK level by end of the series
Marco - I could see him being Yonko level by EoS
Sabo - if he survives long enough I think he will go up.

And there are Unknown Shichibukai (stated in the film by Oda that was capable of cutting Admiral's arm) and Unknown Admiral who should be in the list when we see them.

S+ Tier

Dragon/Shanks/Roger/Prime Whitebeard/Possibly some members of the Gorosei.

S Tier

Old Whitebeard/Kong/Prime Garp.
Prime Sengoku/Kaidou.
Prime Rayleigh.
Possibly some members of the Gorosei.

S- Tier

Current Akainu/Current Blackbeard/Big Mam/Old Garp.
Possibly some members of the Gorosei.

A+ Tier

Beckman/Mihawk.

A Tier

Pre Time Skip Akainu/Marco/Yasopp.

A- Tier

Sabo/Doflamingo/Pre Time Skip Quake Blackbeard/Current Shiryu/Fujitora/Kizaru/Aokiji/Lucky Roo/Old Rayleigh.
Luffy.
Jozu.

B+ Tier

Zoro/Current Kid/Hancock/Prime Chinjao/Current Pizarro.

B Tier

Pre Quake Blackbeard.
Ace.
Magellan.
Current Devon.

B- Tier

Kuma.
Current Law.
Kyros.
Vergo.
Current San Juan Wolf.
Hakuba.
Enel.
Vista.

C+ Tier

Ivankov.
Current Drake.
Pica.
Current Laffitte.
Current Hawkins.
Current Augur.
Current Vasco Shot.
Current Sentoumaru.

C Tier

Diamante.
Jinbe.
Bartolomeo/Cavendish (with Hakuba)/Current Smoker/Current Sanji/Pre Time Skip Sentoumaru.
Trebol/Old Chinjao.
Current Killer.
Current Doc Q..
Current Burgess.
Current Bonney.

C- Tier

Squardo.
Oars Jr..
Tamago.
Pekoms.
Current Apoo.
Current Bepo.
High Level Whitebeard Allies.

D+ Tier

Whitebeard Commanders 6-9.
Mid Level Whitebeard Allies.
Pre Time Skip Kid.
Enies Lobby Luffy/Cavendish (without Hakuba)/Pre Time Skip Smoker/Crocodile/John Giant/Current Chopper/Current Robin.
Current Jean Bart/Current Sai/Lao G/Dellinger.

D Tier

Momonga.
Pre Time Skip Law/Gladius/Doberman/Lucci.
Current Heat.
Onigumo.
Lacroix.
Jean Ango.
Whitebeard Commanders 10-12.
Kanjurou.
Kinemon.
Caesar Clown.
Ronse.
Suleiman.
Ideo.
Bastille.
Whitebeard Commanders 13-16.
Low Level Whitebeard Allies.
Current Brook/Current Franky/Moriah.
Current Wire.
Hack.
Pre Time Skip Drake.
Pre Time Skip Hawkins.
Pre Time Skip Jean Bart.
Senor Pink.
Strawberry.

D- Tier

Yamakaji.
Pre Time Skip Bonney.
Pre Time Skip Apoo.

E+ Tier

Hajrudin/Machvise.
Current Bellamy.
Bluegilly.
Dalmatian.
Baby 5.
Stainless.
Average Vice Admiral.
Pre Time Skip Bege/Pre Time Skip Urouge/Enies Lobby Zoro/Pre Time Skip Killer.
Sugar.

E Tier

Current Usopp/Current Nami.
Monet.
Kaku.
Rolling Logan.
Comil.
Mozambia.
Oars.
Pre Time Skip Bepo.
Maynard.
Cancer.

E- Tier

Acilia.
Elizabello.
Orlumbus.
Enies Lobby Sanji.
Jabra.
Current Tashigi.
Rebecca.
Buffalo.
Jora.
Jeet.
Abdullah.

F+ Tier

Blueno.
Lepanto.
Boo.

F Tier

Kalifa.
Skypiea Luffy.
Skypiea Zoro.
Ohm.
Gan Fall.
Wiper.
Shura
Pre Time Skip Hina.
Brogy/Dorry.
Pre Time Skip Penguin.
Pre Time Skip Shachi.

F- Tier

Satori.
East Blue Luffy.
East Blue Zoro.
Mr. 1.
Arlong.
Average Marine Rear Admiral.
Kumadori.
Skypiea Sanji.

G+ Tier

Gedatsu.
Ryuma.
East Blue Sanji.
Mr. 2.
Pre Time Skip Robin.
Krieg.
Pre Time Skip Franky.
Fukurou.
Pre Time Skip Bellamy.
Absalom.
Average Marine Commodore.
Oimo.
Kashi.

G Tier

Pell.
Dalton.
Pre Time Skip Brook.
Mr. 3.
Pre Time Skip Tashigi.
Kuro.
Average Marine Captain.
Enies Lobby Nami.
Kuroobi.
Sarkies.
Miss Doublefinger.
Gin.
Enies Lobby Usopp.
Perona.
Mr. 4.
Nero.
Yama.
Hatchan.

G- Tier

Chaka.
Jango.
Mr. 5.
Buggy.
Miss Goldenweek.
Cabaji.
Miss Merrychristmas.
Pearl Jam.
East Blue Usopp/East Blue Nami.
Chew.
Miss Valentine.
Mohji.

Something like that.

Only living characters. I'm not going to assume Kaidou is the strongest. Yet.

Top Tier

01. Dragon
02. Shanks
03. Akainu
04. Kaidou
05. Big Mam
06. Garp
07. Mihawk
08. Kizaru
09. Aokiji
10. Sengoku
11. Fujitora
12. Rayleigh
13. Beckman
14. Marco
15. Sabo
16. Jozu

High Tier

17. Doflamingo
18. Vista
19. Luffy
20. Law
21. Kidd
22. Drake
23. Zoro
24. Hancock
25. Burgess
26. Hawkins
27. Vergo
28. Magellan
29. Urouge
30. Killer
31. Sanji
32. Jinbei
33. Smoker
34. Apoo
35. Ivankov
36. Pica
37. Chinjao
38. Capone
39. Bonney
40. Bastille
41. Diamante
42. Trebol
43. Barto
44. Lao G
45. Gladius
46. Cavendish
47. Caesar

I don't understand the logic behind Aokiji being this far behind Akainu. They are portrayed as dead equals (Akainu having a extremely marginal advantage) to the point that both their powers occupy exactly 50% of the island each, they fought for 10 days for crying out loud.

Also, can someone enlighten me on what Shanks has done to put him so high on everyone's list? His best feat is stopping one of Akainus attacks, something Aokiji did for 10 days.
 

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Wow we are on V2. O.O

From previous version:

User Name said:
Also, can someone enlighten me on what Shanks has done to put him so high on everyone's list? His best feat is stopping one of Akainus attacks, something Aokiji did for 10 days.

Shanks was young pirate on the Roger's ship. During that time he fought against persons like Shiki, Whitebeard and Garp. He was capable of sparring equaly with Old Whitebeard (at that time WB was still holder of the title "Stongest Man alive") with their clash sky splits. During their sparr, WB speaks very highly of Shanks, being surprised that anyone could take Shanks' arm (at that time it's possible Shanks wasn't even Yonko), WB who fought against Shanks, when both were younger should naturally know about Shanks' strenght and potential.

Some time after Shanks' left Roger's ship he and Mihawk fought huge battle, according to WB whole grand line shaked at that time.

Shanks and Kaido also meet with each other during MF. It's unknown what happen, there are several possibilities and two of them are
1) Kaido loosing to Shanks, to be worse, Shanks arrived at MF without a scratch which mean difference between Shanks and "Strongest creature in the world" is hyge.
2) Kaido haven't guts to go against Shanks and left (which is very unlikely).

There is possibility that these two haven't fought at all, but there isn't possibility of Shanks loosing to Kaido.

BB said that he and his crew aren't ready to fought Shanks yet, just 2 years later BB is already a Yonko. Akainu, who 2 years later is already Fleet Admiral also haven't went against Shanks.

MonkeyBananas said:
So about Akainu...can someone explain why people believe he's stronger than the Yonkou now?

Akainu is a Fleet Admiral. Rank above Admiral. From the MF arc we got that First Mates of the Yonko crews are around same level of strength as ordinary Admirals. So FA, rank above Admiral should be on par with a Yonko IMO.

Akainu and Aokiji are in my book both on Yonko level, they both were candidates for Fleet Admiral position.

Akainu fought with numeros WB's commanders (including Marco), Aokiji defeated Jozu, character I would say is one of the stronger WB's commanders.

Blackbeard run with tail between his leg, when he found out that Akainu is on the boat.
 
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Kaidou's title has been a topic of debate because it initially seemed unclear whether or not seibutsu automatically includes humans or that it can exclude humans, but while Andy didn't outright state that it automatically includes humans, he seems to think that it does include humans. So I'm going to edit my top 6 tiers on my One Piece Power Levels List:

S+ Tier

Dragon/Roger/Prime Whitebeard.

S Tier

Shanks/Old Whitebeard/Kaidou/Kong/Prime Garp.
Prime Sengoku.
Prime Rayleigh.
Possibly some members of the Gorosei.

S- Tier

Current Akainu/Current Blackbeard/Big Mam/Old Garp.
Possibly some members of the Gorosei.

A+ Tier

Beckman/Mihawk.

A Tier

Pre Time Skip Akainu/Marco/Yasopp.

A- Tier

Sabo/Doflamingo/Pre Time Skip Quake Blackbeard/Current Shiryu/Fujitora/Kizaru/Aokiji/Lucky Roo/Old Rayleigh.
Luffy.
Jozu.

It's possible that it will be proven at some point that Shanks is more powerful than Kaidou, but for now I'll rank Kaidou slightly above Shanks. Translators have said that they think Oda is intentionally using wordplay to be able to hype up other characters who are the most powerful so that they can be more powerful than Kaidou with Dragon being one of the most likely candidates, so I maintain my opinion on Dragon's power.
 
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I'm still confused about Kaidou's power, but I don't see why "creature" wouldn't include humans. Is it possible Oda doesn't want to reuse the World's Strongest Man title?

Either way, Kaidou is definitely top five in terms of living characters right now, alongside Dragon, Shanks, Akainu, and Big Mam.
 

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Creature refers to animals. And humans are usually excluded from term animals.

Which could mean that Kaido's title refer to just zoan type users.

Edit: I have never understand why did people favorised Shanks so much over Mihawk. Shanks is a swordsman and Mihawk is The Strongest Swordsman.
 

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Kaidou literally cannot die. He is in the highest possible tier of warriors in the One Piece world.
 
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Seibutsu includes humans. Pretty much stated by translators everywhere.

Viz specifically states Kaido is considered to be the strongest living thing in the world. This means there's some outlet of fallibility so guys like Dragon who are mostly enigma still have a chance. Shanks? Much less so since everyone knows about him.
 
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Creature refers to animals. And humans are usually excluded from term animals.

Which could mean that Kaido's title refer to just zoan type users.

That's what I figured too, but apparently it's referring to Kaidou as the most powerful organism.

I have never understand why did people favorised Shanks so much over Mihawk. Shanks is a swordsman and Mihawk is The Strongest Swordsman.

I don't think that necessarily means that Mihawk is more powerful than everyone who uses a sword, though. I think that it likely refers to characters who use swordsmanship as their main weapon. Shanks seems to have some of the best Haki in the series. Plus, the Yonkou have been said to be more powerful than all other pirates.

I'm still confused about Kaidou's power, but I don't see why "creature" wouldn't include humans.

Creature often implies animalistic characters, and considering that Kaidou is an animalistic character who likely has Zoan Devil Fruit abilities, it makes a lot of sense that Oda would use creature to refer to animalistic characters and/or characters who have Zoan Devil Fruit abilities. Especially since it seems odd that Oda would use an ambiguous word instead of stating that he's the most powerful character. However, Turrin was saying that seibutsu usually means creature as in organism, and I've asked Andy and Kaizou and they both seem to agree that it likely includes humans. What confuses me is that Kaidou has been called the most powerful creature before, around 100 chapters ago actually. So why wasn't seibutsu noted to mean organism when Kaidou was called the most powerful creature around 100 chapters ago? To add to the confusion, Turrin seems to think that it's referring to Kaidou's species, not necessarily that Kaidou is the most powerful individual. Still, for now I'm giving Kaidou the benefit of the doubt and saying that he's up there with Shanks and Old Whitebeard, if not slightly more powerful than them.

Seibutsu includes humans. Pretty much stated by translators everywhere.

Viz specifically states Kaido is considered to be the strongest living thing in the world.

Actually I don't think that many translators have explained that. Turrin is the only one I know of who has actually explained that seibutsu usually includes humans, with the information just getting spread around forums. That being said, I asked Andy and Kaizou as well, and they seem to agree that it likely includes humans. As for the Viz translation, it says out of every living character, Kaidou is the most powerful creature. That's different than saying that Kaidou is the most powerful living character, though. Still, I agree that Kaidou is up there with Shanks and Old Whitebeard, if not slightly more powerful than them.
 

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That's what I figured too, but apparently it's referring to Kaidou as the most powerful organism.

If I say "Out of all sportsman, LeBron is best Basketball player" that doesn't mean he is best sportsman overall.

There is no point in him having that "creature" if Oda wanted to make him the strongest overall. Whitebeard had title Strongest Man in the World (that would include Kaido as well, considering he is human). So before his dead while he was still alive, why was he just strongest 'man' and not 'organism'. It's hard to believe that some animal/plant was stronger than him.

I don't think that necessarily means that Mihawk is more powerful than everyone who uses a sword, though. I think that it likely refers to characters who use swordsmanship as their main weapon. Shanks seems to have some of the best Haki in the series. Plus, the Yonkou have been said to be more powerful than all other pirates.

Shanks do use swordsmanship as his main weapon.

Every time he was showed in battle he used sword. Against Whitebeard, Akainu and when he was rookie on Roger's ship.
 
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-I'm not saying Pre Time Skip Akainu is much more powerful than Aokiji. I'm not sure what you mean when you say Aokiji gets Akainu to the point where he can finish him off. Finish him off with what?

Where is the evidence that Post-Skip Akainu got any stronger?

-I didn't say that proves Shanks is as powerful as Old Whitebeard. I simply listed it as a great feat.

Yeah, its great. For a top-tier its mandatory though. Anyone who can be considered top-tier (Admirals and above) should be able to have a basic clash with WB. Akainu not only clashed with him, but he outright tore half his face off among other things.

-The Straw Hat has been in the hands of the leader of every generation. Why would that be different with Shanks?

Except Shanks was not the leader of any generation. He was pretty neutral and he is not really doing anything right now either in that regard.

-Where is it stated that Akainu fighting anyone in the war at that point would have gotten him expelled from the Marines? Kizaru and Aokiji, who weren't around the area Shanks was in at the time, actually continued fighting. They didn't get expelled from the Marines for doing that.

Ummm? Continuing a war that has already been won out of personal hatred, risking the lies of thousands of other marines? That's an action worth being expelled for.

-You're essentially just saying that the Red Hair Commanders in general are more powerful than the Whitebeard Commanders. Why would that apply to the Red Hair Commanders but not Shanks?

What? Why do the commanders have to be in proportion to the captain? Why can't the captain be overwhelmingly stronger and the rest of the crew be weaker? Besides, I do think that someone like Marco is still stronger then everyone on the Shanks crew aside from the captain himself. The WB pirates simply have less powerful characters.

-My bad, I thought you said that Naruto surpasses everyone by a significant amount. However, that would then have nothing to do with what I'm saying. Luffy respects Shanks because he's powerful. What Luffy knows about Shanks at the time doesn't really matter. My point is that Luffy is using Shanks as a benchmark, and Oda writing that as the first chapter and making Shanks a Yonkou later on says a lot.

What it says is that Shanks is someone Luffy greatly admires, it has little to do with actual strength.
 
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